Those who read yesterday's post NHS MEGA-RANT TO FOLLOW may wonder what on earth happened to cause me to scream. Before I answer may I ask you to read this post Have We Reached The End With NHS? which is a direct precursor to what happened yesterday.
Today's post is in two parts: the first describes Mrs Carr's appalling treatment yesterday and the second is a plea for help in spreading this story across the web.
PART ONE
Yesterday, Mrs Carr returned to see the same consultant psychotherapist whom she saw last week: she wasn't there for treatment but for a scond opinion. Last week I wrote: "she came away feeling as though she had been abused - psychologically. She came away having been abused.". Yesterday, the psychological abuse reached a new and very dangerous level. After about
30 mins the consultant said that he had all that he needed. Mrs Carr asked what he had found and he said:
CP: "Psychotherapeutic relationships are damaging to you and should be avoided"
Mrs C: "What about normal emotional relationships?"
CP "They too can be harmful and should be avoided."
Mrs C: "Are you saying that I should be denied relationships?"
CP: "There are some for whom it is harmful. You should consider this"
Mrs C: "Are you saying that I should be denied the basic human need of relationships?"
CP: "We are all individuals?"
Mrs C: "Are you saying that it is not a basic human need to have relationships?"
CP: "We are all individuals"
Mrs C: "Now I know exactly what you mean, there is no more to say" At this point Mrs C walked out.
It is clear that the counsultant DID mean that Mrs C should not have relationships in her life.
Now, EVEN IF the consultant's view was correct, EVEN IF, this should have been handled with immense sensitivity but it wasn't. Immense insensitivity!
Imagine saying to anybody that you should never be emotionally close to anyone ever again. Imagine their shock. Imagine their distress. Now imagine saying this to a psychologically fragile person who has already attempted suicide twice. If anything is likely to push one over the edge it is this.
[I thought I had calmed down but as I write this I feel my anger rising and RISING - apologies]
The consultant's behaviour, at best, is crass, cold, calculating, callous, uncaring and unprofessional. At worst ...........
The spectre of suicide must be close. Many of us would find a life without relationships to be a life not worth living. I am fearful.
In a caring and compassionate NHS this would not have happened. Mrs Carr would have been assessed more than 1 year ago. Instead her NHS has consistently ignored her and now, finally, abused her psychologically to a degree which I would never have believed possible.
She needs help now. Proper, compassionate care with understanding of her problems.
PART TWO
For about a year I have blogged about the major difficulties we encountered in trying to have Mrs Carr assessed, diagnosed and treated for her problems and I am very grateful for the support of fellow bloggers. I have spoken on many occasions to her GP and various consultants; I have written to her GP and consultants; our MSP wrote to NHS Lothian all without a glimmer of success.
I have spoken to experts outwith the NHS and one from within: all have said that Mrs Carr is the type of patient they shold be seeing but yet access is denied. Yesterday, I spoke at length to a retired NHS consultant psychiatrist and to her there was no doubt that, from the symptoms I described, Mrs Carr was suffering from an Identity Disorder. Even little snippets of information tied in with the typical behaviour of such a sufferer but yet the NHS is blind and closed and, apparently, determined to deny Mrs Carr assessment, diagnosis and treatment.
Mrs Carr cannot be alone in being treated in this most shameful way and in having her life put at increased risk through the most insensitive behaviour of a consultant.
Mrs Carr needs help NOW!
Others need help now!!
You can help.
Let's spread this story across the web until it so big that it cannot be ignored. If you can please post about Mrs Carr's plight; please link to my posts and ask your readers to do likewise. Even if you are not in the UK please help.
We can help Mrs Carr. We can help others get a much better mental health treatment through our NHS.
Publicity is the key.
We can make changes. We MUST make changes.
Thank you
26 comments:
What you have shown is very strange indeed.
Psychotherapeutic relationships are damaging to you and should be avoided"
You know I don't really know what that means? Does he mean she should not have psychiatric treatment? So what would he suggest?
That conversation is amazing. Sure he does not know her after two visits but surely he must have some opinion about what help she should get. But maybe it will be in his report to whomever.
I can only imagine how frustrated and angry you must feel. But Mrs C, how devastated she must be. I hope she can realize that it is one man's opinion and act as if it had never been said.
She's a mother, for heaven's sake. She will always have an emotional relationship with her children if no one else. Is she to deny them?
Hang tough Calum, my thoughts are with you all.
Callum what was said beggars belief. I will do what I can to highlight your's wife's plight.
My thoughts are with you and your family
This sounds so awful, I don't understand the comments on not having a relationship with anyone!!!
I hope you can find a solution soon!
jmb He is saying that she shouldn't have psychotherapy because she is destabilised by it (or some aspect of it). As I said in my post I talked to a retired consultant psychiatrist yesterday who said, "Of course, they destabilise AT FIRST, and then things improve.
I have no option but to "Hang tough"
Thanks for your support - as usual.
Jams You're right. What the psychotherapist said does beggar belief but why ........
Again thanks for your support.
Cherry I understand only as the words said but not why.
Thanks again.
To make a statement like that and then to not follow through is absolutely criminal, in my opinion. I have been in the "system" here in Canada because of 2 family members and I know how difficult it is to find the proper treatment with the right person. Keep trying to find what and who Mrs. C needs and my prayers are with you.
I've put something on mine to advertise to me few readers. Hope this helps, Callum. Remain strong in your own mind, that is where victory starts. Hunker down for the struggle.
http://theylaughedatnoah.blogspot.com/2008/05/system-does-not-care.html
I am amazed by the treatment Mrs Carr got from the psychotherapist.
It seems to me the person Mrs. Carr consulted clearly had no idea. How tragic, when you clearly need help and you encounter somebody so thoughtless and uncaring.
My thoughts are with you - I do hope very much you will be able to find a caring and capable person to help you through this.
Calum, it is appalling. What a terrible thing to say to ANYONE, but especially someone in a fragile state. Of course I will draw attention to this on my blog. Thinking of you both here in Sicily.
Leslie Thank you. It's amazing that, despite numerous requests and many opportunities, no-one has told us what they believe is the totality of Mrs Carr's problems, why there is such a dearth of treatment nor why our request for a referral to a specialist centre is
cannot be acted upon.
It's brickwall, silence, callousness over and over again.
Sackerson I'm seeing visitors from your blog. Thank you so much.
Chervil Thanks. See comments for Leslie
WL Thanks so much. I appreciate your help. I appreciate everyone's help.
It's a sad fact that psychiatry is the most under funded of all NHS services.
And it is also at the bottom of the list when it comes to power and status for doctors - along with geriatrics - the very bottom of the list being geriatric psychiatry.
The conversation you describe is pretty typical of the way psychiatrists speak to patients.
My favourite example was a friend of mine who was unable to sleep because of acute depression. He was sent for CBT and after ten sessions was told he was cured, to which he replied 'but doctor I still can't sleep.'
There is very little option for you but to keep battling the system until you get the treatment your wife requires.
It might be an idea to see if there is a support group in your area that can offer advice.
I offer this link for a group in West Yorkshire, which was set up to help health professionals and users of the NHS to seek solutions and discuss issues relating to the whole area of mental health.
http://www.evolving-minds.co.uk/
I know they are not a national group but they might be able to offer advice about how to set up a similar group, or of useful contacts in your area.
How terribly sad for you all to be treated this way.
The system fails the people who need it most.
Best wishes to Mrs Carr and yourself :-)
Have posted and hope that more become aware and your situation changes for the better :-)
Even worse! Do you want me to link? Let me know and I will if it might help - but I don't normally do serious stuff!!
Mutley
Thanks for your offer. Please do link.
I think success here is dependent on more and more links being made so that the chances of the story being picked up by the MSM increase.
I've put a link in my sidebar for you. I don't get a lot of visitors so it probably won't be much help in that sense, but know that you have my moral support.
do i understand correctly that the recommended course of action is for mrs. carr to be served by a variety of therapists with whom she has no relationships, or is the idea here that she should provide her own therapeutic services--while remaining emotionally detatched from herself?
i'm very confused...
Can i ask is this psychoterapist a doctor?
I need to look up regulation and license of these people as it sounds a bi like she is being treated by a quack. just because its on the NHS does not mean its not a quack...they do homeopathy too).
Anonymous,
The psychotherapist who was asked for a second opinion on Mrs Carr and about whom I have blogged is a Consultant Psychotherapist and so I believe he is a qualified doctor who has specialised in psychotherapy and works within the NHS..
Calum, Not easy to do, as she was clearly seeking assistance, from what she thought was an expert, but I would suggest that Mrs Carr ignore the idiot.
It sounds, from what you say, as If this so-called expert has pretty limited abilities when it comes to communicating verbally and is poor at modelling emotional responses to what they say, or dealing with them.
These are, I would suggest, essential tools in that particular line of work. Anyone who does not possess them can surely not function effectively in that line of work - and as a result is ill paced to comment on personal relationships, not being able to model them.
Hi,
Really sorry to read of this persons treatment.
For over 10 years now I have worked [voluntarily] with people suffering all realms of conditions and experiences.
Almost every time they have been abused and let down by the system which should be equipped to care for them.
Rest assured, she can be helped, but I suspect, like so many people I have seen/dealt with, the first damage to be undone will be that caused by the therapists themselves.
I hope you get this sorted out - best of luck to you all.
I will link you too, very soon, when i get my site back up and running. Please let me know which page you prefer links to come in to.
My current site is very new, so not much on it compared to prior ones, whoever, we do have a forum for good causes, you are most welcome to post the case on there and use it for publicity if it would be any help to you at all.
Best Wishes.
Assassin
Thanks
I'll let you know re the link and I'll come visiting.
Thanks;-)
One in three people who approach the NHS with mental health issues are turned away. Many trusts do not offer psychotherapy. CBT and medication are all that they can offer.
In Re to bizarre case of Mrs. Carr:
I live in USA where many of us fear socialized care because of stories like these. Be assured, that even if one is a billionare, with the all the money in world to get care; psychiatry is still below par in contrast w/other medical specialties. Ea. yr. HMO's cut costs for mental health until there is barely anything available. Back in 1970's a person was entitled to 3 months inpt. care on most insurance plans. Now it's 3 days and tho meds are better they are not that much better! It seems that "Behavioral Medicine" is trying to destroy the "art" of psychotherapy to have it replaced w/cheap platitudes done in 10 weeks or less. You can ference the work of Aaron Beck at Univ. of PA psychiatry dept. He is the father of "congnitive" therapy.
If Dr. Beck's therapy works so good in just 8-12 weeks, why are we not seeing or hearing about that improvement? Sounds like another fairy tale to me. I'm not saying freudian analytic is only way to go, I'm just stating that our Insurance Companies don't want to pay for psychiatric care.
I think it sounds like the pt. described here has what is called Borderline Personality Disorder w/some charactoristics of Dissasciative Identity Disorder, once known as Multple Personality Disorder. Clinicans have collectively expressed a hatred of treating "borderlines".
They (the berderline pt) are said to be very manipulative, acting-out patients who will exploit their relationship with therapist in a very nasty manner. These are people who threaten suicide, people who will stop eating, act out in many a destructive manner.
We do, however, have therapists who specialize in this disorder. I think tho, that most Americans w/the history presented here, would also have a hard time finding care. Shrinks don't like to work hard. They would rather have a compliant patient who will take meds as directed, perhaps go back to school, or show some interest in being motivated and productive. They don't want a difficult patient who will make their lives miserable.
It is very important for all psych patients to have good look at their charts, and make sure their doctors know they look at their charts. That could cut back on lots of nasty "libeling & labeling". United States is also in transient place in psychiatry whebeby the doctors are no longer being trained to do intense psychotherapy; instead they feel they are now like neurologists, experts at psychopharmacology.
If a person's diagnoses does not fit neatly into a category that can be medicated and show good prognosis, they too will end up in a trash can like this poor English lady. It does not matter how much money they have. Many top notch private hospitals like Chestnut Lodge and Menningers have been closed. I suppose the "best" would be the academic and University hospitals, and these places want only the best specimens for the experiments they are currently working on.
As for Multiple Personality Disorider (now known as Disassociative Identity Disorder); doctrs hate it so much, they don't care to acknowlege it even exists. Combined with a diagnosis of Borderline Disorder, your poor wife is being discriminated against. I would suggest gentle surroundings, encourage her to garden, go horseback riding, care for pets, just make life as kind and gentle as possible.
Reward her for being good. Try to impress upon her that she will have to heal herself if she has any kind of life. It's cruel, yet some are able to stop their own destruction. You might find support groups for her. Check with your church and see what services are available to sad people. Try to look at her as if she is an unhappy rather than a sick person.
Lots of times, time does indeed work miracles. I pray for you; but I do acknowledge that this is not an easy thing to pursue, getting help for one labled borderline. (BTW, borderline does not mean "halfway nuts". It means that somebody has many obnoxious and dislikeable behaviors. The consultant who told your wife she did not benefit or would not benefit from psyotherapeutic relatioship meant exactly what he said. He expressed fear she would exploit her therapist, as she exploits other personal relationships. It's cold. No question about it.
She's a mother, for heaven's sake. She will always have an emotional relationship with her children if no one else. Is she to deny them?
this one stuck out to me. my mother has an abusive and manipulative personality. for years she used the mental health system in an attempt to garner sympathy for herself and justify any form of acting out i did as a teenager. 2 years ago, my therapist called the CPS regarding an abuse of me that she had rendered, facilitating a speedy removal from the home and my present situation living with my father. she has disavowed all contact with me (which she had previously done with her own family after they insinuated that she was a "bad mother" [her words]) and is no longer a factor in my life. my mother needs help, but frankly i can't drive myself to care enough about her. if anyone, she would be the person least in need of emotional relationships, since apparently, she spends them manipulating the other party.
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